Best (cheapest) Green & Non-Green Electricity Supplier
Started by
PeterS
13 Aug 2009, 8:05 PM
Hello. I am installing a 16kW single phase GSHP and wish to find the best electricity supplier. I will be using night rate as much as possible. I am in Southern (region 10) supply with 'standing charge'. I wonder what others have found and where to find the best tariffs with lowest risk given the uncertainty of the volume of my needs. Using the various price comparison sites is very frustrating as pence per unit are not shown. I am looking for a 'green' tariff but would like to compare with non-green. I know that the tariff structures are complex with hurdles, discounts etc.. Is anyone else in the same position or found a good solution?? Does any supplier offer a special rate for GSHPs yet? Who has the best track record for green tariffs remaining low? Any comments welcome.
daveg
15 Aug 2009, 1:35 PM
If you want my advice get rid of the heat pump.
jamesingram
15 Aug 2009, 5:24 PM
how about getting a no standing charge tariff , then every Kw you save you get a better return I've used energyhelpline in the past and they give a green seacrh option though I believe the large generators' green tariffs are a con , they are suppose to generate a certain amount of renewable electricty by law , they fail to reach these targets, go for ecotricity they seem the best of the bunch, investing profits in new genration ,as long as you dont mind paying a bit more per Kw
scotty0362
15 Aug 2009, 10:55 PM
Hi Peters,
Have you thought about providing the electricity via PV for your GSHP, then you would not have the frustration of looking all the time for this, and if it provides more for your GSHP you can sell it back via the Grid at about 43p/pkwh, which at current rate roughly is about 21p.
If you need any further help let me know as a company in Yorkshire does this.
NiallMac
19 Aug 2009, 10:35 AM
Good Energy are worth consideration.
Please also bear in mind that you will benefit from Renewable Heating Obligation from 2011.
Grants of up to £2,000 available on the heat pump installation
NiallMac
19 Aug 2009, 10:37 AM
Sorry, just read the rest of your posting.
Heat pumps run 24/7 so unless you've a way of storing a great quantity of heat overnight you will be better switching from Economy 7/10 to a standard tariff, otherwise you will be paying out far too much overall.
fridihem
19 Aug 2009, 4:45 PM
Heat pumps dont have to work 24/7, the one we have here are fully automated to run the hours you want it to run and the different temperatures you want it to run at, and they do save up to 75% on your electricity bill.
heinbloed
20 Aug 2009, 12:37 AM
The OP: " I wonder what others have found and where to find the best tariffs with lowest risk given the uncertainty of the volume of my needs."
What has your energy advisor -the one who sold you the heat pump- been advising?
Sure there was a demand analysis before putting money into an adventure, into the heat pump?
Otherwise the installation of the heatpump was a bad job-which therefore can't be cured,can't be cheap to run, can't be efficient.....
Bring it back. And use the capital to insulate the structure.
Julian
22 Aug 2009, 1:37 PM
At present the only really green electricity generators are Good Energy and Ecotricity. Good Energy concentrates on small scale, wind and hydro but if you have solar thermal will pay you for generating your own hot water. 100% of the electricity they supply is renewables generated eith wind or hydro or PV. Ecotricity has either a 100% green tariff or a brown / green mix. It does supply some non renewably generated electricity but invests profits in building new wind generation and each year generates more green and less brown. Neither are "cheap". We can have cheap electricity or we can have electricity generated from renewable sources. We can't have both. In each case you get what you pay for.
PeterS
10 Sep 2009, 9:23 AM
Thanks for all the replies so far (keep them coming). Comments on significant replies, in order of date; 1)getting rid of the heat pump is not an option in this house. Yes I have already increased insulation significantly and continue to do so. 2)I believe that a standing charge reduces net cost for higher use users but have not seen nor done the calculation for other than my own provider. 3)PV is, I believe, still far to capital cost intensive. I have significant solar gain via south facing windows so need electricity more at night and very dull days. 4)I was not aware of the Renewable Heating Obligation 2011. Good news if it does get fully implemented!! Thanks. 5)I have installed 'ecoscreed' underfloor heating which should act as a considerable heat store. I plan to run heating overnight on eco and price friendly tariffs and at a minimum, if at all, during peak hours when I will use my wood burner stove. 6)I did SAP calculations for whole house and my supplier (not pure sales led like some) gave what I believe to be great advice and a sensible realistic design (yet to be proven of course). Thanks for comments on providers. However, I am still seeking tariff tables so that I can build my own tariff selection model. Looking forward to hearing any more comments, PeterS
jamesingram
12 Sep 2009, 3:56 PM
this is the carbon make up of the electricity from the UK national grid , no matter what tariff you're on
Here in Sweden our carbon footprint is almost down around the zero figure, as most energy is from nuclear and hydro.
jamesingram
14 Sep 2009, 9:07 PM
I read somewhere Sweden was heading toward a zero crude oil also , is this true
fridihem
15 Sep 2009, 5:16 PM
That is what the politicians are saying, by the year 2020, we should be be off the stuff.
Hi-Dry
17 Sep 2009, 3:53 PM
GSHP are a good contributor to a build project. One must look at the payback period for the investment on the household budget though and ongoing maintanence / breakdown issues over the service life. In terms of taking electricity from the natioanl grid, ideaaly you want to be self sufficient in gernerating your own at source. Any supplier offering green tariffs or otherwise will at best still suffer from transmission losses and therefore wastage. Even electing to recieve a supply from a wind farm only generator is not a gauarantee of being green. All that company does is put there contribution into the national grid, but in reality if you could label the juice comming out the other end it would have coal written all over it! You might not agree in principal, but you are better off having the cheapest "dirty" elctric you can get, saving the differance between that and a "green" tariff and eventually re-investing in a wind turbine of your own!
jamesingram
17 Sep 2009, 4:24 PM
Hi-dry
How do you suggest running a GSHP 'off grid' , its a heavy load , 6Kw+ motor load ? the only way is to feed into the grid with onsite renewables, to offset usage , but this is problematic when it come to peak load times, they'll have to fire up more coal stations to cover it. Green tariffs are mostly a con, though they do express to the generators a consumer interest in the product, hopefully encouraging increased investment.
cheers Jim
Hi-Dry
24 Sep 2009, 12:21 AM
jamesingram
Your right! To start off with i would offset by looking at biting the bullet and paying up front for a small wind turbine and some solar panels on the roof. The electrics can put be through a proceesor driven control panel that shows you what you are making as well as what you are drawing. I can only say that until you are generating enough to fully offset plus approx. 20% on top, would I consider detaching from the national grid. Part of the success of this would involve a large deep cycle battery storage area to act as a buffer. One could also investigate (if your property is in the right location) a water wheel. A good book on this is "its not easy being green". A combination of several methods will get you there but i admit it requires a fair bit of capital to to set it up and you would need to be living in that property for a good 20 - 30 years to see a return?
Hi-Dry
24 Sep 2009, 12:36 AM
You have to laugh really as there is a lot of green smoke screen out there. One example, is that I am currently on a public liason panel for an 80MW incinerator plant that is going to be built near my village. This in simple terms is just a privately owned power plant that eats waste instead of coal. The private owners make money on the electric they sell to the National Grid with our waste they get for nothing, so that the local authority can wash their hands of all landfill tax issues and probably most of their recycling targets as well. The funny side of it all (or not in reality) is that all this goes on to provide steam for turbines that only achieve 35-40% operating efficieny. My father (now long retired) worked as chief engineer at one of the UK's first gas driven power stations supplying most of the Midlands. The best effeciency thay could get was 35%! The rest of your efforts (65%)for burning millions of tonnes of coal you watched from miles around as it came out the top of the cooling towers!